“Even though I was born here and I'm Australian, everyone always likes to remind me that I don't belong. ‘Where are you from?’

I felt more connected in Thailand than I do in Australia, just because I felt accepted. I was surrounded by people that I looked like, how rare is that? I felt at home.”

Saturday 28th January, 2022

Wanida and I are sitting within her cosy home, on the couch with Romeo and GG (her two kittens). We just ate a whole heap of dumplings and soup.

E: Wanida, Can you tell me a little bit about your cultural background?

W: I’m half Thai and half Turkish. Both parents immigrated here when they were around 20. I was raised by my mum in a Thai household and saw my dad on the weekends.

E: Do you know much about your mum’s upbringing?

W: My mum grew up in a country town just outside of Bangkok, Thailand. She grew up really poor, they didn't have any electricity and she ended up dropping out of school at year five because she couldn't afford to go to school past that point. She's one of the oldest siblings and would take care of the younger ones. She ended up running away from home at 15 and eventually came to Australia.

It was only 30 years later that she returned back to Thailand, reunited with her siblings and found out that her parents had passed away. That was the first time I'd gone to Thailand when I was 15, so that was a really big trip.

E: What was it like for you visiting Thailand for the first time?

W: It was different. I don't think I was able to really take it all in because I was at that young age. I just remember not liking the food (laughs), which is so polar opposite to now. I just remember not loving it because it wasn't mum’s food, she cooked traditional food as well, but it was just different and I was used to her food. I remember it being really, really difficult to eat and then we were staying at one of her friends' really small apartments. It was just really squishy, really hot, really muggy. I really wanted to go to the islands and we didn't get to go.

When I went back to Thailand as an adult, that's where I really appreciated everything. Even the people, I think just from dealing with my mum and being raised in a Thai household, I feel like I know how to talk to Thai people because they're sort of blunt and straight up.

Even though I was born here and I'm Australian, everyone always likes to remind me that I don't belong. Like, where are you from? Or what's your ethnicity or what's your background? I was born here, I was born at this hospital here. But when I was in Thailand, automatically people started talking Thai to me. They just assumed that I was Thai and I was like, Oh, I don't speak Thai. Which is another reason why next time I go back, I want to learn Thai. Yeah, I found it so crazy. I wasn't born in Thailand, I'd only been there one other time and automatically people were accepting me and talking Thai even though I do look mixed, I was like that's cool.

I felt so deeply connected to the people and the culture. I felt more connected in Thailand than I do in Australia, just because I felt accepted. I was like, Oh my God, I'm surrounded by people that I look like, how rare is that? I felt at home.

E: Was this trip the first time your mum had been back to Thailand after 30 years?

W: That was the first time and it was really emotional for her. I didn't know what to do when she broke down and stuff, I couldn't really take in how she was feeling. She knew that her parents had probably passed away, but there was no confirmation. At that time my mum and I had a very strained relationship anyway, so I just wasn't emotionally connected to her in general.

E: How would you describe your connection to your culture?

W: I definitely feel connected because I was raised in a Thai household. We always ate Thai food and sat on the floor. My mum still speaks Thai, I don't understand her, but I can pick up the gist of what she's talking about. I do feel like my experience was definitely cultural, but then on the other hand, I feel disconnected because I don't speak the language.

E: Did your mum ever teach you Thai when you were younger?

W: No. So because my mum's Thai and my dad's Turkish, they were like cool, English is the middle ground and we live in an English country, so let's just stick with that. Obviously that sounds really smart, but as I've gotten older I'm like, damn, I really wish they taught me their languages. Everyone that I know that's Thai, speaks Thai, and I'm the only one that doesn't. It's just so frustrating, but one of my goals is to learn the Thai language.

E: Was there much of a Thai community where you lived with your mum?

W: All mum’s close friends are all Thai. So that was just the community I was surrounded with. Then when we'd go to Songkran (Thai New Year), you would see the community at the temples. When I was younger we did big camping trips, gatherings and parties. I think as I got older I just wanted to stay home, you know when you become a teenager you're like, I don't want to go.

E: Do you feel like you had any challenges growing up?

W: I definitely felt from a young age that I was different. More so with beauty standards, I felt like all the boys liked my white friends. Back then it was a big deal, I mean, it has translated in the same way as an adult, but in different ways where it's jobs that you get hired for.

I definitely felt really excluded, lots of people name calling, just for 'jokes,' but it was straight off the bat racist. I remember this one girl in my friendship group would always call me the N-word, because I was brown. She wasn't doing it in a way that was trying to hurt me, but it was such a racist term.

And then there were other things like my mum not being educated, so I really struggled in school because I had no one helping me. I just did all my assignments and everything myself, but I didn't really know what I was doing. I didn't have any help. I did tutoring for a few years when I was eight, which helped with things like timetables and math, but when it came to English, it was really hard for me to do well because I had no help.

E: That's what a lot of people don't realise is the privilege of having parents who grew up in this country, are fluent in english and well educated. Whereas when you're from a different cultural background, with some parents immigrating here, it's a different story. Sometimes you're more educated than your parents.

W: Yep. The crazy thing is, I didn't even know until I left school that people's parents helped them with their homework. I didn't even know that was a thing. The teachers didn't care, they just marked what you had and that's it. They would just sit at their desks and didn't care. I always thought I was dumb, because I always did dumb English and dumb maths. I mean, my whole adult life, I thought I wasn't academically smart and that's why I never tried to go for art grants up until now. I thought i'm never going to get it, or that I was so bad at English. It's not until now that I actually began to believe in myself, I actually can do it, I'm good at it once I get some help and know what I'm doing. I can do this.

E: That's so important, especially when you're a kid, when you're young, to have that support and help. When you're in school and there's teachers that just don't care, that can impact your confidence. Did you go to a culturally diverse school?

W: I would say it was culturally diverse. I went to Springwood State High and I don't think I knew any Thai people, but there were definitely lots of Pacific Islander, Asian, Indian, European people. So quite diverse, lots of white people too though.

E: Did you have a lot of culturally diverse friends in your friend group?

W: I had a few, yeah. It just depended on what grade I was in and who I was closest to at that time. But the teachers, no, I don't remember any teacher being a Person of Color. I remember all my teachers being white.

As soon as I left school, I was completely drawn to other People of Color and didn't even realise it until later on in life. Up until early adulthood and especially in high school, I really tried to fit in and fit the mould. I remember not wanting to go out into the sun because I wanted my skin colour to be lighter, I bleached my hair from a young age as well. I didn't really clock why I was doing these things until later, that I was trying to fit in and be Western.

E: Yeah, because that was considered the ideal beauty standard at the time. We also weren't getting a lot of popular culture or celebrity role models. We couldn't really see ourselves in any of the stuff we were consuming. So all of the celebs, the female icons, the movies and posters and all that, they were all white, blonde, blue eyed and beautiful.

W: Yeah, there was no representation.

E: Looking Asian was something that wasn't considered beautiful. Therefore, you try to change yourself to fit in. I would even try to straighten my hair, do anything to look as white passing as possible, but it's very obvious that you're not.

W: Exactly. Even at my lightest skin colour I'm still really brown. I did all of that, I really tried, straightened my hair, bleached my hair, stayed out of the sun, and felt like I still wasn't fitting in. It was more about how I looked, I never pushed away my family.

E: When you enter adulthood, you start to realise, actually, these are my strengths and you start to learn more about yourself. From those challenges and experiences growing up, how do you feel it's impacted you now?

W: I went through a period of realisation, because I still tried to fit in for a long time in my early twenties. My industry is heavily focused on appearance as well, being in the entertainment world. So now it was more about booking jobs and getting gigs. Again, I tried my best to fit in and I did all the same things that I was doing, straightening and bleaching my hair. I hadn't seen my natural curls in such a long time because I bleached and straightened my hair for so long.

Then I went through this period of change and self-acceptance around my mid-twenties, and I realised, I'm never going to fit the mould. Ever. I just wanted to be accepted and treated as equal to everyone else, why is that so much to ask? I realised, actually, this is really unfair. So I really leaned into who I was. I made the change very quickly, dyed my hair back, which was the first time I'd been natural since I was a kid.

E: Do you know if there's anything that triggered it? Was it this gradual transition?

W: I think it's more just an age thing. Even where I was going in my career, I started working for myself more, doing my own projects and leaning into myself. Yeah, I think it was just time and I'm that type of person. When something clicks, it clicks and I like change. I'm just a bit of a radical personality (laughs).

That's when I started Pink Matter. I also had a breakup and I was wanting to lean into my womanhood, wanting to be around my friends, be by myself and just be me. That was a big life change. I decided to be more outspoken about how I was feeling. I started to talk to my friends more and they felt the same way because they were POC as well. Weirdly enough, they were going through the same thing, feeling that sense of impatience and being fed up.

I remember changing my Instagram bio, which is still there and it's so small, but for me it was a sense of reclaiming myself publicly, putting the first line of my bio 'Thai Turkish.' That's who I am. All my community followed me and I wanted the first thing that they saw was my identity and who I am. That was a moment of reclaiming myself.

From that moment onwards, everything I do now, my cultural heritage and my identity is at the forefront.

E: That struck a chord with me because I went through the exact same thing and that's when everything started moving in the direction it needed to go. When you find your path and you're on that path, then your community comes to you. How is your community meant to come to you if you're trying to be someone that you're not?

W: I was getting in my own way by not leaning into who I was. I blamed people for not being inclusive and upholding these beauty standards, systematically I think it's still their fault. I think there are opportunities for everyone in all spaces, and if you're not being yourself, you're not going to get those opportunities. Sometimes it's up to you to also make space. I think everything that I've done up until this point, I made space for it, but I wasn't able to do that until I truly knew who I was.

E: Seeing you have that intersection of your cultural identity in your practice and showing who you are, for a lot of people like myself it paves the way and affirms that, if she can do it, I can do it. What do you embrace about your identity now?

W: Before, I didn't like the way that I looked. Now I love the way that I look and I love that I'm different. Being a woman of colour and I'm proud to be all those things now. I love that I was brought up in a Thai household and I have that experience. Even just the small things like my mum cooks so much and forces me to help her. Even when I see her now, all we do is cook all day and I just want to relax, but she's next level an amazing cook.

E: What does your mum cook that brings you comfort?

W: She definitely was big on the stir fries, all different types. She's just good at everything, honestly. One thing that I always go back to when I'm feeling sick, because it's comfort food, is rice porridge. I know other people call it congee, but I just cook it whatever way my mom did it. I remember every time I was sick that was on the menu, so now whenever I'm sick I make it, it's just a funny little thing.

We would share everything and have a spread where everyone just picks and eats. It was definitely a weird concept to me when I'd go out with Western people and everyone would order their dish and that was their dish, because that's just not how we'd do it. We even used to sit on the floor, not anymore because my mum has a table now. But throughout my entire upbringing we only sat on the floor. I still do that actually, sometimes I sit on the floor to eat.

E: Would there be any other little things that your mum would do that are traditionally Thai?

W: Just little random things, like I'm not allowed to step over her feet or legs. I wasn't allowed to pick anything off the floor with my feet because that's very disrespectful. Every time I'd do it, she'd get mad at me. My mum's so weirdly Asian, but also Aussie. She has a hardcore Thai accent, but also drinks beers and says Aussie slang. It's pretty funny. We did have a lot of traditions, but on the other hand she's not hardcore.

There are things she didn't pass on and didn't expose to me because she chose not to. My mum's Buddhist, but she never raised me to be Buddhist or have any religious belief, which I'm thankful for. I love that about my upbringing because for most people I know, whatever family their religion is, that's what you're expected to be. I didn't even know that was a thing until I started talking to people. I just completely grew up with no religion and I would go to temples and we'd get blessed by the monks, do the whole thing when it came time to do Thai New Years, but there was no expectation. I remember asking my mom when I was older, 'oh, am I Buddhist?' and she's like 'Oh you can be whatever you want to be.'

All Buddhism is, you just do good to people and you accept people. If you want to be Buddhist then be Buddhist, if you don't then don't. I love that I have no religion and didn't grow up with one. That's why I'm also glad that my mum raised me, because she always told me whatever makes you happy, do that. Whatever you want to be, be that. She 100% supported my dancing and took me to all the classes, drove me wherever I needed to be. When I was young, she was at every one of my concerts and she would watch them multiple times. She did all the sewing, all my makeup and was a hardcore dance mum. I am very thankful about the openness and putting no restrictions on my creativity and who I was as a person.

There was no family pressure to be someone. Until I saw my dad, he's totally the complete opposite. He didn't raise me so I didn't have to abide by his rules.

CULTURAL ARTEFACTS

Gold necklace with two pendants: My mom gave this necklace to me when I was really young. It's gold, I'm a very gold girl. I have a little pendant heart from my Turkish grandma who I've only met one time when she came to Australia, and that's the only grandparent I've ever met. 

Thai jewellery: Gold Ear piece worn in Traditional Thai dance.

Orchids: Mum is a real green thumb and loves to do the garden. That's actually been a really weird one that's circled back around to me, where now I love gardens and flowers because she has a veggie garden and heaps of flowers. We would always walk out when particular ones were blooming to look at it and smell it. It's this connection that I didn't realise was a thing until now.

This tattoo here is Orchids (points to her arm tattoo). Mum had all different types of Orchids, these ones are really tiny and only bloom every now and again. They smell like hectic vanilla and are called Sharry baby. So I love flowers now and I love the garden. Even my dad, he's really into veggies and has a green thumb as well. 

Tattoos: My tattoos are very representative of who I am. My back's the most meaningful one because it's a traditional sacred Thai tattoo that was done by a monk. When I went to Thailand a couple of years ago, I knew I wanted this, so I looked up this tour and you get a Thai guide who sets up everything for you. I knew that I didn't want to go to the monks at a temple because it can be really unhygienic and I didn't want to risk anything. The Thai guide picked us up, they took us to the master's house, and he had this full set up. We did a ceremony to begin, which was repeating after him and doing the full prayer, then you consult with the master about what you want. Because its sacred and has powers, you tell them what you're looking for in your life and I said creativity, success and career. Being a woman, you're not allowed to get tattoos below your waist because it's not appropriate for men or monks to touch you in that way. That's the other thing, when you go to the temple you're not allowed to touch the monks. They're not allowed to touch women, It's just not appropriate. Anyway, the upper middle back is a sacred spot where it's open to your soul, so I was like, yep great. Love it (laughs) I was just down.

It was really crazy because normally with tattoos, it's a tattoo gun, but with this one I had to have two guys hold me down and stretch my skin manually. The master then went in with the hand poke tool and the most painful thing that I've ever had. This is the card he gave me (pulls out a small card) is a prayer you say to make sure your tattoo is connected to it's powers and keeps it strong.

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